Dodgers Appear Ready To Contend Now And in Future, per SB Nation

For several reasons, we’re living in a either-or-either culture. You’re with us or against us, Republican or Democrat, Star Wars fanatic or Trekky. This offseason has been analyzed as such. Teams are either winners or losers, somehow, despite not having played a single game.

If the analysis isn’t up in an hour, it’s worthless. That doesn’t leave much room for nuance or proper perspective, but whatever; neither of those things get clicks.

ICYMI: Dodgers Interested in Kenta Maeda

The offseason might have gone poorly thus far, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the Dodgers are a terrible baseball team all of a sudden. Nor does it take away from the efforts from the office to compete in years to come. How the offseason has gone also doesn’t mean more moves can’t be made, either.

Nick Lampe of Beyond The Box Score laid out the case for the work Andrew Friedman and his team have done thus far.

Looking ahead to 2016, the Dodgers are in an excellent position to win the NL West title for the fourth year in a row. At this point in time, FanGraphs depth charts have the Dodgers at 47.6 WAR, which roughly equates to a 95-win team. This total is the second-best in all of baseball behind only the Cubs (51.8 WAR), and it puts them eight games in front of the Giants and 16 games in front of the Diamondbacks.

There’s the “now”, and while we’ll likely get those mindless “RAWR STATS ARE STUPID NERDS DON’T GET GIRLS RAWR” comments on social media, the numbers should quell the some of the storm brewing around the organization.

Now, about that long-term future, which was often ignored by Ned Colletti:

The Dodgers have a core of elite position players in Corey Seager, Joc Pederson, and Yasiel Puig, and these players are cost-controlled and under team control for multiple years.

They are especially deep in pitching talent, with elite arms like Julio Urias, Jose De Leon, Grant Holmes, and Walker Buehler headlining a system that is strong from top to bottom… The Dodgers spent big in the international market this summer, signing the top two players available and six of the top 50 overall (according to Kiley McDaniel’s rankings).

He also goes on to the describe the financial flexibility the Dodgers just so happen to be lined up for in 2018’s insane free agent class. You know that Jose Fernandez guy who keeps coming up in trade talks this offseason? He’ll be available for cap space and (probably) a compensatory pick then.

The article is really, really good and spells out the type of in-depth understanding it takes to put the work the front office has put in since taking over only a year ago.

Patience doesn’t even need to extend to years from now. Moves can be made literally hours from now that would shift the narrative for more casual fans and while all won’t be forgotten right away, some good PR could go a long way right now.

Like it or not, the “nerds” or “geek squad” or however you want to put it will field a competitive team next season with the ability to become dominant when the value presents itself.

NEXT: Stan Kasten’s Take on Criticism Is Perfect

Staff Writer

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  1. Excuse me, but this is nonsense. I know you want to spin things to the positive, it will keep up your access to the Dodgers front office personnel. There are so many statistics in baseball, all dedicated to making a projection of what might happen. This is how the front office builds a team, fans and sportswriters analyze them constantly.  It’s cute to say “well, they haven’t played a game yet.”, or “be patient, let’s see what happens”. That’s baloney. The fact is that the Dodgers won 3 division titles, and flamed out in the playoffs. The 2016 team as it is constructed today is NOT a better team than last year’s team. Pederson and Puig and Seager aren’t the “elite position players” you refer to them as. Pederson is a great outfielder, but his hitting is terrible. That might very well change in the future, but it is a major unknown. Puig is a hothead and a trouble-maker. He’s a great fielder, but the only thing he seems to be able to hit is his sister. Seager did great, but he’s got about a month of major league experience, and it’s too soon to call him elite. And the prospects  you mentioned, well, prospects are suspects. They might be great, and they might not. 

    Losing Greinke was a major mistake, stop trying to say it wasn’t. There is no one on the roster who replaces anything near to what he contributed. There is the best pitcher in baseball, and then…a bunch of #4 starters. The bullpen was a problem once again except for Kenley, and the only thing that’s been done is to attempt to bring Chapman in, which failed. The bullpen is NOT better than last year.

    Who’s on third? I don’t know! Turner is okay, but you lose his versatility as a superb utility player. Who’s on second? What? I don’t know! Seager could be the shortstop of the future, so we’re probably okay there.

    The outfield? Two great fielders in Puig and Peterson, and weak hitting from both. Carl Crawford can’t hit, it seems. There’s problems there, too.

    Don’t tell us to be patient. Patience led to losing Greinke, who we needed as well as a Price or Zimmerman. They signed Iwakuma, a very poor substitute for ZG, and that fell through. 

    The story here is that Friedman, Zaidi and Kasten have done nothing to make this team more likely to contend. The reason fans are complaining is because we ALL know that’s true, and we see nothing being done about it. This team is not improved, and a lot of others are. We’re the ones who pay for all this. We’re the ones who buy the tickets, the parking, the food, the tshirts and hats. SOME of us pay to see the games on TV, and it’s our eyeballs that make advertisers pay TWC. We invest heavily on an emotional basis in the Dodgers. Kasten needs to stop spinning it so Friedman and Zaidi look good, and start paying attention to the ones who pay the bills. He raised ticket prices this year, and puts a worse team on the field. That’s shameful, and he needs to stop rationalizing and give us the team he promised us. Stop investing in has-beens like Latos, and spend the money to build a winner. To add insult to injury, they haven’t solved the TV mess yet. I’ll believe the Dodgers care about their fans when they build a contender (See: Chicago Cubs for example) and get the games on television. Stop with the excuses and just do you’re damn job.

  2. RMRuby Be patient. The offseason isn’t over yet. The Dodgers have only lost Greinke and Kendrick off of last years 92 win team. I get the Giants added starting pitching but both of those guys had down seasons last year so who knows what they’ll get from them.  The D’backs added pitching too. Remember what the Padres did last offseason? Where did that get them?

    I agree there is work to be done but don’t just settle or do something to react to what others in the division have done or what the fans say. The Dodgers have a solid team to put on the field now and top prospects that can possibly help on the field this year or be traded for other assets.

    Lets see what the roster looks like come Spring Training before you criticize the front office.

  3. What if building an organization that can compete for championships for years to come, call it sustainable success, is done in such a way that is contrary to the ordinary and simple minded fan would do so? These are the same types of comments we heard about trading MVP candidate Matt Kemp and not resigning Hanley Ramirez. Shoulder injury aside Grandal is every bit the offensive player Kemp is at a premium position, from both sides of the plate, and for a shockingly smaller commitment financially. Leave building a 200-300m baseball team to the “math nerds” who know what they’re doing or should people show up to your job and complain about your decisions when they know ZERO about it.

  4. Don’t make me laugh…contend for what? 3rd place? As they are constructed right now, this team could not win a college world series….

  5. This is coming from the guy that didn’t want the Kemp trade and wanted to resign Hanley. Michael Norris, do real Dodger fans a favor and just buy a Giants jersey and bring your resume as a Major League GM to your new teams “fan” board. How many millions would you have committed to players who’s new teams are trying to dump now? Hobbled, one leg, striking out, and zero defense making 20m a season. You would clearly win the World Series every season if only any MLB team would hire you. Can’t they see that? LMAO

  6. VictorCharles2 Michael Norris No, not insane…..just my opinion..you do not have to agree…That is your right, but maybe I am seeing this roster a lot differently than you…Puig has been so so for the last 2 years, and injured……..Ethier, and Crawford are overpaid, and getting older…I admit Andre had a comeback year, but he still cannot hit lefty’s and is a platoon player at best….Turner had microfracture surgery, and has never played a full season at any position. Utley is way over the hill, which means Kike will most likely start at 2nd, and he is much better as a super sub. Pederson is a work in progress, and only time will tell if he will cut down the strikeouts, and hit above .250….Seager is a rookie, so no one has a clue what he will do over a full season, but the kid has skills. Grandal is still a lousy defender, and I would bet he might hit 20 homers, but his average will be around 230. After Kershaw, and unless this FO makes a dramatic turnaround, the rotation as it stands is mediocre. Ryu, you do not know what he will be capable of…Anderson is a .500 pitcher at best. Wood, well one day he is good, next he sucks. Right now there is no definitive 5th starter. Bolsinger? please…..the  guys fastball won’t break glass. And do not get me started on the bullpen… Not win a college world series,,,well I am most likely wrong there, but this is far from a championship roster, has more hole than swiss cheese…and the front office has done bupkis……but you believe what you want…ok with me….

  7. ChrisTerrell I did not want the Kemp trade…..and maybe I wanted Hanley back, because I thought he was a better option, I was wrong there. But Grandal was not that great, they got nothing out of Weiland, and Rollins, well he was just as advertised….old and heading downhill. Kemp drove in 100 runs, played okay defense. I have been a Dodger fan longer than you have been alive, so I can bitch and moan all I want…I have seen the good and the bad, and I absolutely hate the Giants. I did not like the Gordon trade either, but as a fan, I was not alone, A lot of my friends felt the same way. As it turned out, Kike was a revelation, Barnes played well at AAA, but Hatcher took half a year to get his act together. And trading Heaney for Kendrick, well that was kind of a wash……but Heaney is going to be an Angel a lot longer than Kendrick was a Dodger… Your opinion is no more valid than mine….I do not like this FO, and that is my privilege, if that bothers you, well that is just too damn bad…..

  8. A third place finish is what you call ‘contend’???? You must the same brain killing food the Dodger front office eats!!!!!!

  9. Silly me… I thought they were positioned to “contend” the past THREE years! Not sure how letting your best pitcher walk and replacing him with no one (not to mention doing nothing to upgrade the offense) makes you BETTER positioned to contend??

  10. @Michael Norris I’m not capable of understanding every aspect of every move and how it influences other decisions and other seasons like a professional schooled to do the job of a Major League Baseball executive but I do know that Kemp and Hanley make a lot of freaking money (like top 20 in the game each!) and Gordon is a rookie scale contract but Grandal, Kike, Barnes, Hatcher, Heaney, and Weiland all make small potatoes. Not only does it free up 40M to make other moves this season but it creates cap flexibility moving forward. You said you’ve seen ups and downs, I respect that. So has the Phillies! So has the Tigers! Ask them about committing untold Millions to aging injury prone stars has worked out for them and their fan bases. They can’t do anything except just wait for them to retire…. Untradeable contracts just like Kemp and Hanley who the Padres and Red Sox would LOVE to dump. On its face, you just see a couple names and think about as far as your nose. Do you think Preller would take a do-over? In a freaking second…. They’re screwed. Do you think the Tigers can overspend for another older player and pay him for what he used to be and maybe Verlander will be worth 20M when he’s 37? Ryan Howard will hit 220 and hobble around this year getting paid like a top 5 player, you know, like he WAS before he got paid. Father Time is undefeated Michael and the sure bet is developing from within, the farm, the system, youth, the future. When you have 7 years of control counting arbitration years and they’re in it every year for the next decade, I’ll say I told you so. Meanwhile Kemp will be at first base looking like Ryan Howard and the Padres will be nowhere with all their big signings. How did that work out? It’s more complicated than flipping over and reading the back of the baseball card Dodger fans. Flip over a 2025 card and see what the last 10 seasons said… That’s the game they’re playing. 2005-2015 results are meaningless. Now, let’s figure out how to spend that 40M on players that will produce for the coming decade – not the last one.

  11. ChrisTerrell You make valid points Chris. And yes, player control is important. Kemp’s contract was a direct result of his monster 2011 season. And he was 26, so an 8 year contract at that time was pretty much a given that it was the only way they would keep him. He was on his way to an even better season in 2012, but the Coors field wall ruined that….nobody can predict injuries, and the contracts they give today are ridiculous…..they took on a lot of salary when they got Gonzalez, and they overpaid Ethier. CC’s contact was a Boston blunder, and they took that on. But they paid Kemp 18 million last year to play against them. A lot of the salaries they paid the last few years were to players that were no longer on the team. The guys you mentioned above, Grandal, Kike, Hatcher Weiland, Heaney, and Barnes, none of those guys are more than 3 year players, so yes, their salaries are low……the only 2 that were worth a damn were Kike, and Hatcher after the break. Grandal faded like a old horse, and his defense never was all that great. Heaney does not count because he is not even a Dodger. You talk about freeing up money. Well that’s great if you actually do something with the money. So far, that has not been the case. And you cannot compare what Preller did in San Diego to the Dodger situation. This is a large market team with a huge and very loyal fan base. But the fact that they have gone 27 years without a Pennant, most fans could care less how much they spend if they field a team that can win. They could have gotten rid of Ethier, CC, and Puig, and gotten almost as much production out of Kemp. But it is a moot point. Kemp is gone, and not coming back..I understand that….So is Dee, and now Greinke, and Kendrick. But that roster as constructed right now, well it is no championship club. Not even close. Outside of Kershaw, that starting rotation is a disaster waiting to happen….But it is not even January yet so the FO might regroup and make a significant move or two. But I am very skeptical. But we will see…….

  12. If I was GM, I would think about signing Maeda for an AAV of 15m for 5 seasons. Kershaw, Maeda, Ryu, Anderson, Wood is 3 starters around a 3.5 ERA, one that could be better than that, and Kershaw at the top… Solid top 5 starting pitching. You have several very talented kids close to coming up… Maybe later this season. Don’t mortgage the future for a pitcher that’s not that much better than what you have. I like Hatcher and Jansen in the back and we have a couple really good options in situational lefty relief. I like one of the kids to potentially emerge as the 7th inning guy and a couple guys coming back that could take a step up. Overall top 5 pitching again for the Dodgers without selling the future. No draft picks, no prospects, keep them, develop, there is a couple lottery picks in there and several solid depth major leaguers… Let them grow.
    Offense: Sign Cespedes for 25m for 6 years. He’s still young enough and a 5 tool player. I think another star Cuban helps Puig become a real pro and reach his potential. Ethier had a good season. There are several clubs looking for help in the outfield. Include some money and get a top 50 pitching prospect back whose skills say starter within 2-3 seasons. Add him to the mix. Nothing is more volatile or expensive than pitching. Play Cespedes in left but put him in center against lefties when you sit Joc and play Van Slyke. Or give the Thompson kid a chance to hit lefties. I like his athleticism – speed – bloodlines.
    1. Hernandez
    2. Seager
    3. Cespedes
    4. Gonzales
    5. Puig
    6. Grandal
    7. Turner
    8. Pederson
    Deep lineup with speed and power. Turner or Puig hitting 7th! Wow.
    Bench: Crawford hits righties, Van Slyke hits lefties, AJ, Thompson can run, Guerrero.
    There I spent 40m and the best part is we keep developing and holding on to our future. Dodgers and Cubs play for who goes to the World Series 🙂

  13. ChrisTerrell That all sounds great on paper, but the BIG unknown in all that continues to be the SP rotation.  I still contend that if Ryu is considered anyone higher than a No. 4 in their rotation, they are in trouble … because I don’t even think he will make it to the ASB before again breaking down. Anderson, Wood and McCarthy are all BIG question marks I am not sold on.  Maeda … IF Dodgers actually sign him… who knows? Will he be like Tanaka or more like Daiske?  I am nervous banking on international “stars” who are totally unproved at the highest level of MLB.

  14. Thanks to front office, dodgers will finish in 3rd place. They need two pitching starters two contend.if they think the dodgers will contend now they have lost there fucking minds

  15. Anthony you really are a shill for the Front Office. Please do not call yourself a Journalist.
    The Dodgers as they are constructed are fighting for 3rd in the NL West. But more importantly in the fight for being the NL WS team they are in the second tier. Cubs, Mets, Giants, Dbacks, Nationals should all be rated higher at this time. The Dodgers are a second tier team with the Cards, Pirates etc. 
    Yes they are very well set up for the 2018 season I am thrilled for them but the object we all thought was to win in 2016. And do not think the Dodgers will be active in 2018. By then they will be bringing up their Farm Team and have lots of Cost Controlled players on the Team. Which means they will be making a fortune for Guggenheim.  Which is great. THe questionis will they spend money to be competitive? Not sure of that. They wanted to make a splash because the McCourts were so hated. but lets see what they do now…..

  16. We don’t want them fighting for third in the nl west. We want them to win four divion titles in a row and world series champs now. Not in a couple of years. It’s bs

  17. Michael Norris VictorCharles2 Michael as usual completely agree. I think they may go after Maeda as they have to do “something” to quell the fan riot and it only costs them money not a draft pick. Also he is young and from what I have read on him a good solid pitcher. As he has a solid arm and shoulder though because of that the Dodgers may not be interested..LOL.
    Concerned about Turner’s knee and his injury history. Not sure Kike is a full time player but really like him as a sub as do you.
    If they keep him there is a lot of positive thoughts on the net about Trayce Thompson he may turn out to have a very good upside and could push Pedreson which I think he needs. He also has very good speed and can play all three OF positions.
    Montas Sounds great but slate him for the BP. Gotta love a 100 mph plus pitcher with control issues. No Digging in.

    I agree also on Grandal poor defense and does not have a good contact hitter background. Does have some power but not enough to cover up the defensive issues. 
    I see this team today as fighting the Rockies for 3rd. And not getting close to a playoff slot. I think the NL Playoff Wildcard teams may come out of the East and Central. 
    I have hopes that Anderson has a chance to work on stamina instead of injury this off season and is about a .600 pitcher. I have had several friends have shoulder surgery and Kemp and Hanley had it also. I think Ryu coming back strong this year is possible but not certain and Grandal will probably lose all of his power the first year same as Kemp. Shoulders rehab slowly and it takes over a year to get your full strength and mobility back. 
    Merry Christmas…

  18. RMRuby Love your comments and the passion…I 100% agree with you. They have not fixed any of the holes. They have not clearly won any trade they made last year. Great comment

  19. ChrisTerrell Wow Grandal is Kemp’s equal offensively? Have you been hitting on the Front Offices Bong Chris? They are probably equal defensively. LOL….Grandal is an average hitter look at his stats and is coming off of shoulder surgery. Every baseball player that I know of that has had shoulder surgery has had to wait one and a half years to get most of their power and stroke back. I wish Grandla well but he will probably have to slowly recover like everyone else. Grandal also showed he is NOT a team player as he did not tell Management how badly he was hurt until the end of the season. He continued to play and take At Bats that the very hot Ellis could have taken and that might have made a difference in the playoffs.

    I would never have signed Handley he has to DH. The man cannot field left field let alone SS. We simply had to hang on for Seager for one year. 
    But the Team had holes that caused them not to win in the playoffs. The same issues caused them the last few years to have a less than .500 record against plus .500 teams a very bad sign. 
    Since then we are down Greinke perhaps one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball and Kendrick who is a very good contact hitter, a great citizen in the clubhouse and a decent defender. 
    Plus our competition in our division the Giants and Dbacks have greatly improved and the Cubs and Nationals have improved also. Remember this is a fight to get to the WS not just a playoff game. 
    Yes they are going to become the Braves of the 2015’s and beyond but that team only won one WS…. 
    The Giants are at 3 for the last 6. And this is an odd year and they now have a very good starting rotation and their key players have healed up. They will be very formidable. And their manager is probably one of the best in baseball.

    Allowing the Giants win the division and possibly another WS is not acceptable…
    Yes we will be hell on wheels in 2018 that is great but what about now…

  20. Lango21 RMRuby “Wait and see is no way to look at staffing a baseball team. World Series are won by building a team with the right players, managers, coaches, chemistry, attitudes and game plans. Anything can happen, as we all know, but it IS possible to look at a team an analyze the probability of winning. 

    The fact is that the Dodgers were not good enough to get to the WS. Okay, 28 teams don’t get there every year. But what the best teams do is analyze WHY they didn’t get there, and then seek to address those opportunities. That said, which of any of the needs the Dodgers had has been addressed so far? I think that Roberts may be an improvement over Mattingly in some ways, but he doesn’t have any experience as a major league skipper. Other than that, what have they done? Is the starting rotation better? No, it’s not even as good as it was. Is the bullpen better? Nope. How about the outfield? Nope. How about the infield? No, it’s not better either. 

    Waiting to see what the roster looks like in spring training is nonsense. Do you wait until an hour before takeoff to see if you have a competent pilot for an aircraft? No. Hell no. You plan well in advance. Sure, there’s still options available to the Dodgers. But they’ve passed up/fumbled several great opportunities. Imagine the Dodger with Greinke AND Price, or Zimmerman–that’s a much improved lineup over last year. 

    What about 3rd base? 2nd base? How about the poor hitting in the outfield? 

    Wait for spring training–give me a break. Build a team, don’t sit on your ass getting nothing done. And note, I’m not saying they’re not trying to do anything. But to quote Master Yoda, “Do or do not. There is no try.”

  21. RMRuby Lango21 The Dodgers can’t force people to sign with them. Word was that before AZ jumped in that Greinke was going to SF. It’s not that easy. It’s very competitive.

    You don’t think they have a plan?  You’re right, these guys are just throwing darts at a board. Gimme a break.

    What about the OF? They have Ethier, Pederson, Crawford, Puig, Van Slyke, and Kike. How many more OF’s do you want? Their depth is a strength. Do you want them to overpay for players that no one else will ever want down the road, like Crawford, with the only way to get rid of them is to pay them to play for another team? That’s not how you build sustainable success. They can’t spend 300mil every year.

    Ever since new ownership came in they said they were going to put a winner on the field right away and they did by opening up their pocketbook to have success short term to get fans back to fill the seats while building the farm system back up. They can’t buy everyone every year. They have a plan and I trust them to execute. Don’t let these last 2 months, which I admit haven’t been great, be your basis for where this team and organization is heading.

  22. ChrisTerrell Chris, you had better check Grandal’s stats from the right side……no power at all……he hits for more power as a lefty. He is far from being equal to Kemp. He is only adequate behind the plate. Ellis is a far superior defensive catcher, and after he got healthy last year he brought his average up to only a couple of points behind Grandal. The only facet of catching that Grandal has a better handle on is pitch framing. And although management finds this a needed skill, I think game calling and in game management is a more desired skill….that is my opinion, but most of the great catchers were great at this part of the game……You worry too much about the money side…..Kemp earned what he was paid….every penny when he was not injured, and you forget his huge turnaround in 2014. He was right behind Adrian in almost every offensive category. He was the Dodgers best hitter period the last 6 weeks of the season. Comparing Grandal to Kemp is like comparing a lemon to a sweet orange…it does not fit……the Dodgers paid Kemp 18 million last year to drive in 100 runs for another team……..but I guess that makes sense to you….since you think the wonder boys, Fried Brains and Zorro are genius’s …..

  23. Tmaxster RMRuby T is like me….we both feel the need to question the strategy this FO is using…..makes no sense sometimes….the pick up players on waivers who have no chance of helping, let alone playing for the big club…there are more holes now than existed last year…so saying they are going to contend is a little like believing in Santa………Pure Fantasy…

  24. Lango21 RMRuby OK, I will give a pass on Dodgers’ inability to keep Greinke because he IS a head case and self-described “paid mercenary.” I am just surprised he DIDN’T sign with Giants just to double stick the Dodgers.  It was clear he was not happy with the team and its direction last season… especially Puig’s antics.  But what ABOUT the OF you speak so highly of?  Yeah, they have great “depth,” but none of the guys you rattled off is good enough (including Puig and Pederson) to play every day against both righties and lefties… so we’re back to another daily “plug ‘n play” situation where every day is a different lineup??!  Then we turn to the IF … Dodgers passed on Frazier because they didn’t want to move Turner to 2B, but who is to say Turner will return to last year’s form off his injury… and if he does, who plays 2B?  Again, another Utley/Kike platoon??? And we can’t forget that great starting rotation of Kershaw and … um, and… ????  If anyone relies on getting much from Ryu, they’re crazy.  Maybe Dodgers sign Maeda, maybe they don’t… but he is unproven at MLB level.  Dodger apologists keep talking about World Series is not won in December… and there is still plenty of time to make moves … but realistically, Dodgers are fast running out of any SIGNIFICANT FA options.  That leaves praying that the valued prospects will maybe/hopefully/eventually pan out.  That MIGHT happen for Seager at some point… not at all sold on assumption that Pederson and Puig will improve… Urias and other prospect arms still sound like they are not ready to contribute at bigs level … which means, great… AAA club will be awesome this year, but parent club?  Ummmm, not so much??  I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to wait two or three more years while Giants and DBacks leave Dodgers in their rear view mirrors.

  25. right winning the west will not happen unless they get better starting picthers,they will need 3 top picthers i will take drysdale and sandy koufax along with clayton.well thats shows may age.iam a old guy now but still like baseball .but loves JESUS .the dodger have been knowen for top picthing and stealing bases.what happen,how stop me iam waxing old again bring back the best hitting catcher in baseball history mike piazza. watched him hit the ball into the parking lot,it was cool baby.thanks my friends and merry christmas to all and may you grow old like me and love JESUS to.

  26. Michael Norris Tmaxster RMRuby Hey Michael they haven’t picked up a scrub from waivers in about a week. What is up with these guys??? 

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